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Has Obama Reduced The Right To Religious Freedom?

Discussion in 'Rough' started by SneakyDave, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. SneakyDave Administrator

    First, my trophy wife is Catholic, which makes me Catholic, but I don't know one Catholic that actually practices the "rhythm method" or whatever its called, as the only form of birth control that is accepted.

    Just because the requirement exists to provide coverage for contraceptive methods, it doesn't mean the people have to take it right?

    On the other side, I agree that I don't want the government telling me what kind of coverage is available to me, but that's more of a universal rule.

    This is a pro-religious slant on it, I can't seem to find any news articles really "praising" it though
    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/02/morning-bell-obamacares-latest-victim-is-religious-freedom/

    This is from msnbc.com:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46072552
    #1
  2. P'tuny Active Member

    Here, that is not an issue, As we do have Universal health care.
    But any medical benefits are blanketed within the system so Religious employers have never said Yea or Nae to what is included in health care.
  3. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    That's ok. Catholics have a year to "get used" to breaking their beliefs permanently. Everybody knows that time will heal all wounds (including being forced to break religious values).

    More hope and change for the masses.
    SneakyDave likes this.
  4. worstedweight Psittaciformes Power

    Are you ok with your health care system, P'tuny?

    Nothing is perfect, I know.

    I'd like to see everyone have decent health care coverage here in the USA.
  5. worstedweight Psittaciformes Power

    Oops. Maybe my post doesn't belong here. Sorry.
  6. FarLeft Active Member

    This is just a strawman because, as Dave said
    From the MSNBC article:
    There's the answer to their problem. And if they no longer can get employees, oh well. At least they had a CHOICE. Seems to me there are many faith-based initiatives trying to take away CHOICES for women. Now they can see how it feels.
  7. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    Too bad the Catholic Church has no CHOICE. They'll have to eat their Hope and Change.

    When the government can tell a religious organization they have to shelf one of their founding ideals (the protection of life) for what big brother wants, you have totally f*cked over the separation of church and state. Goddamn let's be sure and separate the church and state when the goddamn Ten commandments are displayed in front of a courthouse but let's f*cking put the state right smack dab up the ass of the Catholic church and control it like a puppet for abortion's sake and that's all good.

    What a bunch of shit. Spit.
  8. FarLeft Active Member

    And another thing...

    Instead of stomping their little feet and saying NO ONE should benefit from this just because they are against it, why don't they look for and advocate a solution that might work for EVERYONE.
  9. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    Like what? What's your ideas?
  10. worstedweight Psittaciformes Power

    I've come to accept that we must keep religion out of areas where it may hurt others that aren't religious or have a different religion.

    So much goes on which I have problems with..... I think we should/can be better. But I have no control over it. All I can do is live my life by example and speak out when I can. I am but one voice...all I can hope for is a change of heart from those who think/feel differently than I do.
  11. SneakyDave Administrator

    It seems that "contraception" is the main sticking point, why can't they just make that a Obamamcare option plan or something (I almost called it Plan B), it it that important to force it?

    Maybe no businesses would opt in to pay for it.
  12. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    The Church will drop coverage because of this. There's no way they will succumb to this nonsense. It's just another way for big brother to wrap its gnarly, greedy hands around more and more control.

    People are blind.
  13. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    Oh you think? You just witnessed the strong arm tactic that razed the Komen decision to stop funding PP? The pressure on businesses to ALL comply and adopt Obamycare will make that crap we saw look like a picnic. Obamy and crew are going for the gusto with this move. The ramifications of this go much further than the Catholic Church.
  14. P'tuny Active Member

    I see no reason why is should not be here (your question) Worsted, but in reply to your question....Yes, I like it, as is with anything, it can be improved on, but for the most part it works.
    I think that what is important here is there is no division between classes....The man in the middle....the working stiff is not penalized because he earns a wage....The poor ger it free, and the Rich get the same services free, so does the Working person as well. I think that is what important.
  15. Trouble Locked and Loaded

    But the big political news of the week isn't Mr. Romney's gaffe, or even his victory in Florida. The big story took place in Washington. That's where a bomb went off that not many in the political class heard, or understood.

    But President Obama just may have lost the election.

    Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center of Politics, on Mitt Romney's huge fundraising advantage and Democrats' cash haul.
    The president signed off on a Health and Human Services ruling that says that under ObamaCare, Catholic institutions—including charities, hospitals and schools—will be required by law, for the first time ever, to provide and pay for insurance coverage that includes contraceptives, abortion-inducing drugs and sterilization procedures. If they do not, they will face ruinous fines in the millions of dollars. Or they can always go out of business.

    In other words, the Catholic Church was told this week that its institutions can't be Catholic anymore.

    I invite you to imagine the moment we are living in without the church's charities, hospitals and schools. And if you know anything about those organizations, you know it is a fantasy that they can afford millions in fines.

    There was no reason to make this ruling—none. Except ideology.
    The conscience clause, which keeps the church itself from having to bow to such decisions, has always been assumed to cover the church's institutions.
    Now the church is fighting back. Priests in an estimated 70% of parishes last Sunday came forward to read strongly worded protests from the church's bishops. The ruling asks the church to abandon Catholic principles and beliefs; it is an abridgment of the First Amendment; it is not acceptable. They say they will not bow to it. They should never bow to it, not only because they are Catholic and cannot be told to take actions that deny their faith, but because they are citizens of the United States.

    If they stay strong and fight, they will win. This is in fact a potentially unifying moment for American Catholics, long split left, right and center. Catholic conservatives will immediately and fully oppose the administration's decision. But Catholic liberals, who feel embarrassed and undercut, have also come out in opposition.

    The church is split on many things. But do Catholics in the pews want the government telling their church to contravene its beliefs? A president affronting the leadership of the church, and blithely threatening its great institutions? No, they don't want that. They will unite against that.

    The smallest part of this story is political. There are 77.7 million Catholics in the United States. In 2008 they made up 27% of the electorate, about 35 million people. Mr. Obama carried the Catholic vote, 54% to 45%. They helped him win.
    They won't this year. And guess where a lot of Catholics live? In the battleground states.

    There was no reason to pick this fight. It reflects political incompetence on a scale so great as to make Mitt Romney's gaffes a little bitty thing.
    There was nothing for the president to gain, except, perhaps, the pleasure of making a great church bow to him.
    Enjoy it while you can.

    You have awakened a sleeping giant.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203889904577199523577373982.html
    worstedweight likes this.
  16. SneakyDave Administrator

    I didn't have a problem with Komen deciding to not fund a program, I thought it makes them look kinda weak to respond to that pressure, but I didn't see any "strong arm tactics". I just saw a lot of bitchin' and complainin'. If a charity can't handle that kind of heat, maybe they shouldn't be in the charity business.
  17. SneakyDave Administrator

    Playing the devil's advocate, hasn't the Catholic Church been "forced" to abandon some of it's preaching anyway? I don't think they consider our current government a governing body, the Pope has to set rule, as I understand it, I may be way off base here.

    The Mormons had to fight the battle of polygamy, and lost. Churches lose their freedoms every day, I'm not saying that's right. They certainly haven't been gaining any new freedoms, no matter who the president is.
  18. P'tuny Active Member

    Good analogy Dave.
  19. SneakyDave Administrator

    I don't have any answers, but I think if you make exceptions for the churches that don't want to offer contraceptive measures in their insurance plans, you have to make exceptions everywhere else.
  20. P'tuny Active Member

    I agree, "Special Cases" always upset the Apple carts!

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