Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Buffalo]

----- Original Message -----
From: "DorothyL" [dorothy@auctionusers.org]
To: [spurbit@gwtc.net]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: OAUA Member Complaint 02-C005


] A formal Member Complaint has been filed with OAUA and the review process
] affords you the opportunity to add any information you would like to have
] considered in that process by responding to this email.  Please respond no
] later than March 11, 2002.
]
] Summary of Complaint: Member's actions have violated By-laws and Membership
] Agreement. Specifically:
]
] 1. By-laws Article I Section 1.4. Expulsion: "other conduct materially and
] seriously prejudicial to the interests of the Corporation".  (posts made by
] you on the auctioncrotch.com Discussion Board which were directly imported
] from the private members' areas of the OAUA Discussion Board ).
]
] 2. Membership Agreement: "engaged in conduct considered by the OAUA to be
] prejudicial to the interests or purposes of the OAUA."  (same as above)
]
] 3. Complaint also cites copyright infringement as referenced in the
] Membership Agreement for the above posts on auctioncrotch.com.
]
] Thank you for your cooperation in resolving this matter.
] Dorothy Lueloff
] Chair, OAUA Membership Committee                    

[Powerhouse]

You were suspended for the message boards for that infraction, isn't that enough?                    

[Sneaky]

Maybe they're gonna sue! Right after they're through with Ross! Maybe they'll get enough money from both Buff and Ross to upgrade their board.                    

[Sneaky]

Figured I'd better check my email......
Too bad I'm out of town all next week.

---------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:  [dorothy@auctionusers.org]
Delivered-To:  xsneakydave-sneaky@sneakydave.com
Received:  (qmail 32330 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:13:37 -0000
Received:  from unknown (HELO www.auctionusers.org) (216.40.212.51) by pt01.futurequest.net (63.151.147.170) with ESMTP; 08 Mar 2002 21:13:37 -0000
Received:  from c545107-b.auctionusers.org (12-253-58-196.client.attbi.com [12.253.58.196]) (authenticated) by www.auctionusers.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g28LG5s21976 for [sneaky@sneakydave.com]; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:16:06 -0800
Message-Id:  [5.1.0.14.0.20020308132459.00a97d90@the-wolves.com]
X-Sender:  dorothy@auctionusers.org
X-Mailer:  QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date:  Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:08:13 -0700
To:  sneaky@sneakydave.com
From:  DorothyL [dorothy@auctionusers.org]
Subject:  OAUA Member Complaint 02-C006
MIME-Version:  1.0
Content-Type:  multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-24FB222; boundary="=======353B537D======="
Attachments:  text/plain
 
  Show full message header
 Printer-Friendly Version
 
 
A formal Member Complaint has been filed with OAUA and the review process affords you the opportunity to add any information you would like to have considered in that process by responding to this email.  Please respond no later than March 11, 2002.

Summary of Complaint: Member's actions have violated By-laws, Member Agreement and Logo Use Policy. Specifically:

1. By-laws Article I Section 1.4. Expulsion: "other conduct materially and seriously prejudicial to the interests of the Corporation".  (in your role of Discussion Board owner,  not removing the posts made by poster ID Buffalo which were directly imported to your auctioncrotch.com Discussion Board from the private members' areas of the OAUA Discussion Board ).

2. Membership Agreement: "engaged in conduct considered by the OAUA to be prejudicial to the interests or purposes of the OAUA."  (same as above)

3. Logo Use Policy:  "The Member may use only versions of the Marks contained in graphics files provided to the Member by the Association." and  "The Member may not modify these graphics files or create and use new graphics files containing any of the Marks."  These policies are found at [http://www.auctionusers.org/detailed-usage.shtml].  (The reference is to the graphic shown on your website auctioncrotch.com in the OAUA forum area which does not comply.)

4. Complaint also cites copyright infringement as referenced in the Membership Agreement for the above referenced posts on auctioncrotch.com.

Thank you for your cooperation in resolving this matter.
Dorothy Lueloff Chair, OAUA Membership Committee

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.330 / Virus Database: 184 - Release Date: 2/28/2002                    

[Sneaky]

I guess I'd better request the $100 I donated for the bookkeeping review to be refunded too.                    

[Powerhouse]

You wanted to see the OAUA getting something done - well, there you go!                    

[gaffan]

Procedural aside: the chair of the membership committee (Dorothy) has no choice in this matter.  Member complaint gets filed, she has to play connect the dots.  
Anyone wanna hazard a guess as to which member anonymously filed the complaints?                    

[Sneaky]

Yeah, I bet she loves her job when she gets these types of frivolous complaints.

Actually, I think I reported Buff, and then Buff reported me.                    

[Powerhouse]

I reported everybody!

Everybody is on report!

Drop and GIVE ME TWENTY!!!                    

[2112]

So, while searching for change in their pockets, they discovered their balls? About time. Wrong aim, but better late than never. At least they found one procedure that can be agreed upon.

Ya gonna miss the place?                    

[Buffalo]

Figured I'd better check my email......  
Too bad I'm out of town all next week.

Oh sure Sneaky now I have to go to OAUA court all by myself! LOL......what a frackin joke these people are.                    

[hellcat]

"Anyone wanna hazard a guess as to which member anonymously filed the complaints?"

I would guess the AyaTOYllah.

And if you want an example of someone whose actions are contrary to the purposes and interests of the OAUA...


Beth                    

[Sneaky]

I just tried to request a refund of my donation to the email address that send me the confirmation of receipt, billing@auctionusers.org.

Guess what, it doesn't work.                    

[Buffalo]

You know Sneaks that was wrong how they took your money and many others and did nothing with it as they said they would. Maybe it's time to contact someone about being ripped off by the OAUA.                    

[Charlotte Fox]

What a crock of crap

If they start policing all of the stuff that gets posted on other boards and carry on against the posters and the board owners...they don't have a chance in hell of ever amounting to anything.

Beth...too bad you are not still a member, you could file that complaint.

Lordy Lordy                    

[Buffalo]

Beth...too bad you are not still a member, you could file that complaint.

Well Sneaky and I are still members at this point. Maybe you would like to file in our behalf Beth? Or maybe that's against there rules!!                    

[gaffan]

You know Sneaks that was wrong how they took your money and many others and did nothing with it as they said they would. Maybe it's time to contact someone about being ripped off by the OAUA.

On one level, I can't believe I'm defending this one. But here goes.

The bucks for the audit were received during the time of the IB.  We had a very limited agenda and also no treasurer or even enough folks to sign a check.  So it was not possible for us to do anything about it.  The present BoD apparently found it to be no easy feat to locate someone willing to be treasurer; Mike wasn't installed as such until 1/15.  I'd be willing to bet all the forms weren't counter-signed and the Big Shoebox Full of Old Receipts wasn't in his custody until the end of January, making that the earliest point at which they could've started in on this.

So, ask yourself if you'd be this ticked off if you'd sent the money in a month ago, because that's the earliest they could've started moving.  Easy for me to say, of course, since it's not my money.                    

[hellcat]

Well, I have no standing (even by proxy) to file an OAUA member complaint against Booby.  And even if I could, I've never been interested in the waste of resources (particularly mine) involved in playing against a dealer with a stacked deck, loaded dice, and a pedal stop on the roulette table.

For what it's worth, guys, the "purposes" of the OAUA may be found on the "main" site page - "About Us" section.  No violation.  (BTW, this section does not "label" itself as "Purposes," but it fairly closely mirrors Article III, section 3.1  (Purposes) of the OAUA's "Articles of Incorporation" filed with the State of Indiana.  However, the fact that those Articles of Incorporation are not posted on the OAUA site, nor routinely available to members, nor is that "About US" identified on the site as the OAUA's "purposes"  raises the question as to whether any member might be said to be reasonably able to determine the "purposes" of the organization, and therefore makes any member requirement to avoid actions in conflict with same to be questionable).

The OAUA owns no copyright to the posts on their site (in any forum, regardless of limitations on accessibility), and the OAUA cannot reasonably take steps to enforce a copyright they do not own.  No violation.  

And that leaves us with "prejudicial to the...interests" of the OAUA.  Since the "interests" of the OAUA are not specifically defined on their site, nor in the Membership Agreement, nor in any of the documents incorporated by reference therein, NOR in the Articles of Incorporation, it is unreasonable to expect that  members would be able to determine what actions they might, or might not, take which might, or might not, be "prejudicial" to those undefined "interests."  It's one of those amorphous terms which allow the powerfool-of-the-month at the OAUA to exercise the weasel-word portion of the Membership Agreement (which allows a member to be expelled by the BOD for any (or no) reason).

A fairly good case could be made that restricting access to the forums which are currently "members only" ( ) was "prejudicial to the purposes and interests" of the OAUA.   An even better case could be made that the OAUA has not accomplished ONE THING which is reflective of the "purposes" of the organization in over 18 months, and in fact, has not even managed to fulfill the minimal necessary requirements (under the regulations of the state of Indiana) to maintain their incorporation status in that state.  

All of that notwithstanding, you already know where this is headed, I expect.

Beth                    

[Buffalo]

Ohhh I love when you talk that way Beth! LOL....thanks                    

[Sneaky]

I just filed a no confidence vote with the OAUA for Don Benedict, it went like this:

I'd like to file a complaint against Don Benedict OAUA Web Master.  
His technical ignorance, and lack of communication flies directly in the face of what a competent web master and OAUA member should be.

His inadequate abilities have stalled any progress on the AuctionUsers.org site, dampening the OAUA reputation, making it look like something  
a teenager attempted to product on GeoCities.

This is a vote of no confidence for Don Benedict. As a member, I expect this complaint to be investigated religiously.

Hopefully, he'll get his own Complaint Number. I'm coming up with one for Bobby now.                    

[Sneaky]

Here's the Bobby Beeman complaint. If you feel that any OAUA BOD member to be inept, I'd suggest filing a "No confidence" vote, explaining your reasoning. I tried to use more gobbledy gook than Don does in his talks about drive partitioning.

This is a complaint against the current (or past) COO of the OAUA, Bobby Beeman (ToyRanch).

Bobby claims that posts to the AuctionUsers.org discussion board are owned by the OAUA.

His idiocy and crude demeanor do not benefit the OAUA, nor do they portray an effective Chief Operating Officer.

Bobby's instruction and direction are vague, and hides behind Don Benedict, who is mute, deaf, and dumb.

This is a vote of no confidence for Toy Ranch. As a member, I expect this complaint to be investigated religiously.

                   

[Powerhouse]

Honestly, Dave. I know you can communicate better than THAT!

You have a right to file whatever complaints you wish, but I think they would be taken just slightly more seriously without the name calling in an official complaint.

If I were to receive that as a BOD I would dismiss it as lacking sufficient merit. I think you would do better to include constructive points or some evidence of the validity of the complaint.

Unless you were just trying to yank chains.

Mike. :confused:                    

[Dman-N-Company]

Well as I was tought Two wrongs don't make right, 20 wrongs will make things no more Right.

I agree that none of this Should have ever came about at all, if they wanted to suspend one member from posting for a short time to get a point across after a few warnings so they knew Where they stood with good reason thats one thing.

Even so adding more problems to something already out of control just makes more problems..

Certinly I don't Understand the intolernace with dave over a misplaced banner link This type of thing could happen with any single sponsor or advertiser on a far larger scale even, The banner still gave them more visablity then they had before and as far as I know it was free advertising.

even if they wanted to push this one and take it to court this site would be give 30 to 60 day to fall into compliance I believe out of fairness before any further action were taken..

as far as CopyRights on posts on message boards well thats such a fuzzy area and a mighty board brush to be painting with on this that it would make a great script subject for the writers of night court ...

Then again if one of the poster whos words were copied is makeing this complaint it could be a very valid case against the OAUA and the member who did the copy and past as they have a right to claim the copyrights to there posts..

apparently the OAUA is claiming they  "except full Liability for what is posted and what happens to the posts on there boards and any damages that they may cause" , most message boards and businesses provide services as is and will except no Liabilities for damages the service may cause to person business or income they say use as is provided for use at your own risk..

I don't think the so called privite forums were poorly thought out the reasoning for them are very sound and been in the planing or discussion about it for a long time.

I don't think flipping and flopping around on changes made to bend plans for individual members  The so called privite boards are not privite to any member the password is provided for all to see so they can post and view.

I do agree with dave on the point that the site it self needs to be updated far better then it is or has been in the past and there is a big need for an updates page where the public non-members and members alike can view whats happening this way these changes wont come as any suprise.

No one single person with any kind of a life out side there computer could possibly get all changes by volenteers made in a timely fashion 24/7 for this group there is just to many changes that need to be made now 90% of the website updates and changes is still dated  2000 makeing the whole organization look two year out of touch or inactive  on any auction issues..

This site should be provideing many things that it isn't and hasn't even in its past I think dave is a valuable member who could help in this matter if the group would just cut all the resistants to nessary change..

They need to cut members and volenteers a little slack and allow them help to do what they do best one of the simplest thing they could do is allow volenteer to make updates and change to the site with out going through 50 steps only to find they forgot to ask mother may I better site and server management is needed like I said no single person can handle all of this at all..                    

[Buffalo]

I don't think the so called privite forums were poorly thought out the reasoning for them are very sound and been in the planing or discussion about it for a long time.

Well with ass kisses , that is what keeps OAUA in business. Why hide behind closed doors? What are you people afraid of?                    

[Dman-N-Company]

Buffalo

Look the point is This use to be behind closed doors its not  no more its visable to members.

A riddle for you when is a big and grand change to an organization not really a change at all..

in the case of the OAUA its when all along unlinked password protected forums exsited for discussion not every one had the URL for already exsited...

another words some of these forums exited before they were made open to all members, The bylaws forum has been there for quite a while the security forum was added before it was linked to.

as well not sure if it still exsits but there was a unlinked passwrod protected bod forum where they could discuss issues as well..

They do seriously need to put togeather an update page for everything that is going on...

The door at the OAUA is far more open today then ever before to its members !!!!!                    

[Sneaky]

If I were to receive that as a BOD I would dismiss it as lacking sufficient merit.

I would have thought the same receiving the complaints against Buffalo and myself. Sometimes you have to condescend                    

[Powerhouse]

Ok, it just became clearer.                    

[gaffan]

I don't think the so called privite forums were poorly thought out the reasoning for them are very sound and been in the planing or discussion about it for a long time.

Dman, I was there and you weren't.  Just how the **** do you know what went on?  The reasoning behind it and the specifics of a particular implementation are completely different things.                    

[Sneaky]

Dorothy wouldn't accept my member complaints. Oh well, I guess I'd better start archiving threads!

Return-Path: [dorothy@auctionusers.org]
Delivered-To: xsneakydave-sneaky@sneakydave.com
Received: (qmail 27148 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 18:04:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO www.auctionusers.org) (216.40.212.51) by pt01.futurequest.net (63.151.147.170) with ESMTP; 09 Mar 2002 18:04:45 -0000
Received: from c545107-b.auctionusers.org (12-253-58-196.client.attbi.com [12.253.58.196]) (authenticated) by www.auctionusers.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g29I79i09766 for [sneaky@sneakydave.com] Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:07:09 -0800
Message-Id: [5.1.0.14.0.20020309103731.00a94680@auctionusers.org]
X-Sender: dorothy@auctionusers.org
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:48:20 -0700
To: "David Dotson" [sneaky@sneakydave.com]
From: DorothyL [dorothy@auctionusers.org]
Subject: Re: No confidence in COO
In-Reply-To: [200203090857090400.0357B2BB@mail.sneakydave.com]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16EA2116; boundary="=======41876A9D======="
 
Complaints against members of OAUA are investigated under the following guidelines:

The complaint should initially be reviewed to determine if it contains an allegation that a member (while a member) violated: the OAUA Code of Ethics, or; the OAUA Logo Use Policy, or; the OAUA Privacy Policy, or; the OAUA Membership agreement.
Complaints not meeting one of the above criteria shall not be further reviewed, and the complainant shall be so informed.

Therefore, this complaint will not be reviewed and has been administratively closed.

Dorothy Lueloff
Chair, Membership Committee                    

[Buffalo]

Well isn't that special!  Do they do make this shit up as they go along?? LOL.......
Well Sneaky I can see the writing on the wall just a matter of time before we are kicked out.